An ([info]raven_radiation) wrote,
@ 2009-03-07 13:06:00
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Entry tags:discussions: discourse, discussions: forums and media, discussions: racism

What privilige discussions are and aren't saying.
(My attempt in arranging a dead horse's limbs.)

If you are white, in a white-dominant white-normative culture, you reap white privilege. There may be other privileges which you do not reap. That's not the point or topic of that sentence. If you are white in a white-dominant, white-normative culture, you reap white privilege.

If you are a white woman, you may still be discriminated against on the basis of your sex, but you will still reap white privilege. If you are a poor white person, you lack economic privilege, but you still have white privilege. White privilege exists for you because you are white.

I recommend reading Peggy McIntosh's essay, "Unpacking The Invisible Knapsack," if you would like examples on what white privilege confers. It's an incomplete list, but it's an enlightening one (emphasis mine):

17. I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

18. I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

19. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

20. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

21. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

22. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

23. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

24. I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

Note how it keeps coming back to race? That's because it's a discussion of racial privilege. If it were a discussion of sexual or economic privilege, it would keep coming back to that.

Saying "What about me? I experience this other type of disadvantage!" in a discussion about race is like telling someone who turns down a slice of lasagna because she's allergic to tomatoes "What about me? I'm allergic to dairy and that has ricotta in it!" It means that neither one of you will be able to eat the lasagna, but it doesn't mean you have the same problem or that you'll experience them in the same way. (As a corollary, saying "Yeah, but what about your sex or economic status?" is like saying "Yeah, but it also has pasta and sausage and ricotta in it!". The fact that she can eat wheat/gluten and meat and dairy products does not make her any less allergic to tomatoes.)

No, white privilege is not a be-all end-all ticket which guarantees you absolute equality in all life's dealings. What it is, is a freedom from an entire suite of cultural misapprehensions, expectations, and burdens which you would otherwise have to carry. Yes, in this society, being exempted from those burdens is a privilege.

As a person – white or not – you have burdens to carry. No one is disputing this. When people point out white privilege, they're not saying you would be burdened only if you were non-white. They're saying if you were non-white, you would have these additional burdens to carry.

When there's a huge, ongoing discussion about racism and a white person chimes in with "I'm not privileged, I'm a woman!" or "I'm not privileged, I'm poor!", they are wrong. They are privileged in a way which does not reflect their sex or economic status. Believe it or not, they can be privileged in one way and disadvantaged in another.

A wealthy man of color will still not experience white privilege. He will experience economic and male privilege. He will not experience white privilege.

If you want a discussion about womens' disadvantage or economic disadvantage, you're well within your rights to start a new discussion. But please, please, please do not see it as your fundamental right to bring the discussion of racism to a screeching halt so that you can repurpose the discussion to talk about a different set of privileges altogether. In a discussion about otherness, for example, or marginality, all these privileges should be examined as part of a larger societal ailment. Discussions of otherness are good and necessary.

A discussion of racism is not a de facto discussion of all cultural otherness or marginality, just as a discussion on tomato allergies (say, in the form of a blog of tomato-free recipes for popular foods like pizza, salsa, marinara) is not a de facto forum for all food allergies (and the author is under no requirement to accommodate those with, say, dairy allergies in his/her considerations). The fact that it's an inappropriate forum does not imply that it's an inappropriate topic. People with dairy allergies are more than welcome to find or start their own forums. But expecting to walk into a different discussion and be accommodated is unreasonable.



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[info]rachel_swirsky
2009-03-07 08:10 pm UTC (link)
Want to cross-post this to Alas?

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[info]raven_radiation
2009-03-07 08:59 pm UTC (link)
*blinks* ...sure! If it'd be useful there.

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[info]finitemonkey
2009-03-07 08:49 pm UTC (link)
I think you have dairy privilege.

;)

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[info]raven_radiation
2009-03-07 08:58 pm UTC (link)
And this is a privilege whose benefits I enjoy almost every day! :P

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[info]chris_reynaga
2009-03-08 03:40 am UTC (link)
Well said. Such well reasoned dialog is perhaps the only way to get beyond prejudice, and the tendency for all people to be blind to their own privileges (racial or not).


(I still believe that your scones transcend all trials of race and gender and promote peace and goodwill to all.)

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[info]raven_radiation
2009-03-08 04:50 am UTC (link)
Aww, thank you!

Clearly what must happen is that I must become independently wealthy; at least enough so that I can afford a modest house. Then I will spend all of my time baking scones which will be delivered for free to the houses of various persons engaged in meaningful dialogue. The cards accompanying these scones will bear simple injunctions and aphorisms such as "Be a good person!" and "Things are rarely simple enough to be grasped with a closed mind."

Then world peace and coffee in the global fireplace room.

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[info]sethrenn
2009-03-08 05:59 pm UTC (link)
Ugh, that whole Elizabeth Bear discussion... we've just been avoiding it, because from the little we've dared to peek into it, a lot of it has taken on this tone that makes us barely able to read it at all. It's not that we don't want to discuss the issues involved, it's just... that tone, which we can't really put words to. Then again, given the nasty tone of what apparently set it off in the first place, maybe that was inevitable. Also an example of why we tend to think fandom and writers don't mix, most of the time, or at least LJ-version fandom. (We know that, realistically, professional writers can be asses as much as anyone; it's just... very disheartening when they let that assholishness hang out in your face so blatantly, to the point where you think you couldn't actually stomach reading anything they wrote any more.)

We're... unfortunately familiar with people who will get on a high horse about what kind of privilege they *don't* have, when you try to point out a kind that they *do* have and where it's distorting their view of something. I'm not quite sure how to describe this, but some people can have this amazing ability to compartmentalize their perceptions. They can be totally aware of exactly where they stand in regard to a certain kind of injustice, a certain inequality of privilege and power, and yet not be able to take that understanding and apply it to themselves in a way that puts them on the more empowered, more privileged side. Instead, they'll fight it and insist that they can't be missing any part of the picture here because they've experienced oppression too, or even claim that the inequality you've pointed out is not a real one because "those people" actually deserve their status and their treatment, so you can't claim anyone else has privilege over the group in question.

Not sure if this makes any sense either, but I think the problem a lot of people have is that they equate "but I'm just as oppressed as you because of this thing" with "I therefore understand your situation entirely and can speak for you, so how dare you accuse me of not understanding the issues you deal with." When in reality, many people are patchworks of ways in which they're privileged and not privileged, empowered and disempowered, and it's not a question of "just as oppressed as you" but "this person has to deal with stuff I don't have to think or worry about, even if I have to deal with different kinds of stuff that they don't have to worry about, so I should listen to what they say about their experience and think about the things that I assume or do or don't do because I don't have to worry about that stuff, and how some of those things may harm people."

...er, we might just be repeating the point you made now, though.

...At this point in our lives, I have to admit we're not really sure how to participate in most discussions about race and privilege issues online, because of, well... issues involving our plurality. I have to admit that we still... haven't figured out how to talk about it without looking like we might be trying to recontextualize the discussion, or claiming that the front body isn't socially privileged in some ways just because it's not privileged in others. (We're not asking for answers or for "validation" from anyone else, though-- definitely not; no one else can give us the answer to that kind of thing.)

-Us!

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[info]raven_radiation
2009-03-08 10:55 pm UTC (link)
[When in reality, many people are patchworks of ways in which they're privileged and not privileged, empowered and disempowered, and it's not a question of "just as oppressed as you" but "this person has to deal with stuff I don't have to think or worry about, even if I have to deal with different kinds of stuff that they don't have to worry about, so I should listen to what they say about their experience and think about the things that I assume or do or don't do because I don't have to worry about that stuff, and how some of those things may harm people."]

Exactly. Exactly exactly. (And don't worry about restating points; sometimes that's the best way to get a handle on an issue.) Lack of privilege in one arena translates neither into expertise in another area nor freedom from the responsibility (to pay attention, to educate yourself, to listen, to avoid making the problems bigger) that comes with ways you are privileged.


[...At this point in our lives, I have to admit we're not really sure how to participate in most discussions about race and privilege issues online, because of, well... issues involving our plurality. I have to admit that we still... haven't figured out how to talk about it without looking like we might be trying to recontextualize the discussion, or claiming that the front body isn't socially privileged in some ways just because it's not privileged in others.]

Argh. I imagine that must be horrible. Speaking from a position which is neither well known nor culturally understood is an uphill battle in more ways than one; at least society now recognizes that racism is a bad thing, even if it has trouble moving past the abstract affirmation. Neuro(a)typicality has a hundred different kinds of backlash and stigma against its discussions.

...well, this is (in theory, at least) what speculative fiction is good for: asking questions and bringing up unusual points of view on the human condition. And at least if discussion is happening, it means it's a community which can discuss...

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[info]rachel_swirsky
2009-03-11 04:01 am UTC (link)
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2009/03/10/7018/

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[info]oxfordgirl
2009-03-12 01:10 pm UTC (link)
Linked here by [info]vampire_kitten. This is a very useful analogy and helps me think about the topic in helpful ways. Thank you for posting it :).

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